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We recently had the pleasure of hosting Helen Pollitt, and James Congdon
for an Ask Me Anything (AMA) in our Slack #general-career channel.
Helen Pollitt, is Director of SEO at Getty Images. She’s spent the last 20 years in Digital Marketing, has more than 10 years of hiring and management experience, and has interviewed more than 100 people for digital marketing roles.
James Congdon is the Founder of recruitment agency, Withfrontier. He spent over 12 years working in Digital Marketing before setting up his recruitment agency, and since then he’s placed over 700 people into roles across search and growth marketing, eCommerce and SaaS. James works with dozens of agencies, businesses and brands in the UK, US, Australia and Dubai.
Helen and James answered questions from our community on a range of topics, including the current job market, applying for jobs, career progression, promotion, and more! You can read the highlights from their session below.
Our live AMA sessions take place on the WTS Slack Workspace, a safe, private space for community members to ask questions and share their knowledge. Out of respect for our members and their privacy, rather than publishing full transcripts of these sessions, we curate edited recaps which capture a selection of the questions and answers from each session.
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James: So the job market is improving, and I do think that the demand for GEO/AEO roles is increasing. I’m also seeing community management now becoming part of AEO, and lots of fresh opportunities are popping up in that space. The market for content-led SEO / AEO roles is also on the rise, and I’m starting to see new job roles like editorial managers being advertised too.
Helen: I really think the biggest gap at the moment is humility. Not underselling ourselves, or making ourselves smaller, but genuinely looking to learn from other peoples’ experiences. There’s a lot of newness going around our industry at the moment, especially with the introduction of AI as a discovery surface. Show willingness to learn, to be corrected, to grow.
I’ve been in interviews before where I’ve been challenged by the interviewee on a subject, but they came about it with such humility, and showed such an aptitude and desire for learning, it was just a brilliant conversation, and we both left the interview with more knowledge than we started it with.
Conversely, I’ve had people state something completely incorrect in an interview, as if it were an undisputable fact. As I’ve probed deeper, asked them to consider the logic of what they’ve claimed about the subject, they have doubled-down and gone with the old chestnut: “well Google lies”. SEO is really a team sport, and if we can’t learn from each other we’ll be in trouble.
Other than that, I’d say adaptability. Learn how to apply your knowledge and skills across industries, across platforms, across website types. Everything is moving so fast in SEO at the moment, that being adaptable to whatever discovery platform emerges next can really help in landing a new job or growing in your current one.
James: I agree with Helen, humility is everything. I also see large gaps around commercial understanding – i.e. the ability to actually understand what commercial success looks like, and how to communicate results in commercial terms.
I'd also add “being easy to work with”. When I look back, I wasn't always a good team player, which made me hard to work with when I was an SEO/Digital PR. I was so focused on my goals and what I needed to achieve, that I didn’t always consider other people, what motivated them, or how I was impacting them. It definitely held me back.
Helen: Be neutral on the whole “AEO is just SEO / AEO is a completely new thing!” debate. Hiring managers might have strong opinions on this and be put off if you lean too far one way or the other. I’d recommend straddling both sides of the argument for a bit!
Focus on your transferable skills and experience. There are a lot of overlaps between the two disciplines (oh look, I’m straddling both sides of the argument!). Your experience as an SEO will be very important in a career in a more AEO-focused environment. Talk about how your experience would help you with AEO opportunities. Give examples of your previous AEO work and results if you have them. If you haven’t had the opportunity to work on much AEO stuff yet then talk about what you would want to do in a specific situation, or for their brand.
James: If we were on a call right now, what I'd ask you is: do any of those things interest you / excite you more than others? And if so, which? If there are a few areas that excite you equally, then put together bespoke CVs that go into detail about those, including projects you’ve worked on, results achieved, etc. You can use these CVs to pursue specialist roles.
However, if you actually enjoy all of it and want to pursue a career that encompasses all of the above, then you have entered the market at a good time, because lots of SEO and Performance agencies are looking for a new type of internal marketer: one that is responsible for partnerships, brand-focused marketing of the agency, relationship building in pursuit of sales, events, and things like hosting podcasts. The title that seems to have stuck is “Growth Manager”. It's worth looking at, and something you and I could definitely discuss – I have filled a few of these roles lately.
Helen: Many companies don’t want a specialist, they want someone who has broad experience across a lot of channels. This puts you in a great position!
However, if you are looking to move into a more specialised role, build yourself a library of examples to draw from. For example, if you are looking to move into email as a specialism, build some mini case-studies about the email campaigns you have run in different situations.
Helen: I often split skills knowledge into “theoretical” and “practical”. Both are valid. Sometimes someone has a lot of theoretical knowledge of a subject – they’re read about it, gone to conferences and heard talks about it, and could explain it to others – but they haven’t actually carried out the work themselves. A lot of people in our industry have theoretical knowledge of GEO/AEO and automation, but it sounds like you have “practical” knowledge too –, i.e. you have actually carried out work in these areas. To show that off, you need to give examples of the work you’ve carried out. Talk about the processes, the results and the reasoning behind your decisions for these projects. That will show that you don’t only have theoretical knowledge, but practical experience too. You could even reference these projects in your CV so you can show your practical experience before you get to interviews.
James: To enhance your credibility and show off your expertise, provide evidence. Document the automation workflows you’ve built, and the things you’ve tested. What did you learn? Have you managed to increase visibility for clients on AI surfaces? Write a few case studies outlining what you did, what went wrong as well as what went right, and what the outcomes were.
Helen: Use all that experience and position yourself as a leader already. You don’t have the job title, but you have the necessary skills and experience. Our industry is one which has very little standardisation in job titles. An “SEO manager” might be halfway up the ladder at an agency, or the most senior SEO in-house. Don’t worry about your current job title, build case studies of the leadership activities you have already been doing.
James: Before I answer your question, I’d encourage you to ask yourself:
If you are just chasing a title and don't actually think you'll enjoy or excel at people management, I personally would stop to consider whether or not an individual contributor senior strategy-focused role (i.e. one with no people management responsibilities) might be a better fit for you.
On your question on how you can position yourself, if I were to be honest then I would say you can absolutely go all in on what you do have, because many hiring managers will see the value you bring, and view you as a candidate who is ready to step up. But they may also not and I guess you'd need to accept that.
This might not be the answer you were hoping to hear, but the reality is that you aren't fully-qualified for a leadership role, if you don’t have previous experience of managing people. I’m not saying you shouldn't apply, because you are still clearly a strong candidate. I am just saying be honest and go all in on what you do have and let them decide how important the previous people management experience is to them. They may be willing to train and support that part of your development.
James: I wouldn't obsess over optimising for ATS in particular, but stick to a clean layout, use clear headings like Experience, Education and Skills, and make sure your job titles, companies and dates are really obvious, because those are the key things that the ATS will pull.
I’d avoid things like complicated column layouts, pretty pictures, text boxes, graphics, skill bars and anything that could make it harder for the system to actually read what you’ve written.
The other big one is keywords. Look at the job description and make sure the language they’re using matches the language you use in your CV. For example, if they’re asking for “technical SEO experience” and you’ve done technical SEO, actually say technical SEO. Don’t make the ATS guess, because it won't because it's not smart enough!
Helen: My only bit of advice is your CV is the only SEO-related place where keyword spamming is allowed and recommended.
Helen: I have absolutely seen CVs and covering letters still work. It very much depends on the hiring process of the company. For many the CV and covering letter is a formality that has to be met to be considered.
If you do elect to go down the cold outreach route, my number one recommendation is to BE POLITE. It’s OK to reach out to hiring managers, unless they say otherwise in their job ads.
However, respect their time and don’t ask for too much. They tend to get inundated when they are hiring, and you don’t want to be seen to add to that. However, it can be a great way to get a feel for the company, your potential manager, and just make yourself known.
Perhaps just introduce yourself and ask a simple question that isn’t covered in the job ad already. However, if you have been directed to only speak to the recruiter, it’s best to follow that practice.
James: Re: your question about portfolios – strong YES – I do recommend putting a portfolio together, even if you're perfectly happy in your current role. It's just good practice to keep a record of your wins, the work you're proud of and, importantly, the results you've achieved. You never know when you're going to need it, and trying to remember everything you've done over the last three years when you suddenly start looking for a job is much harder than keeping a record as you go.
Be really careful around NDAs and sensitive company or client information. Check what you can and can't share before putting anything into a portfolio. If you're able to share it, though, it's absolutely worth doing.
I'd also say don't be afraid to do something a little bit different with your application. Record a Loom video, for example. Obviously, you can't just upload one to a LinkedIn job application, but do a bit of digging. Find the hiring manager, someone in HR, or somebody senior within the department and connect with them.
Tell them you've applied and that you've recorded a short, two-minute video introducing yourself. Talk briefly about your experience and why you think you're relevant, show a bit of your personality and, importantly, demonstrate that you've actually done some research into the business, and the role. Then ask if you can send it over.
I've seen little things like this go a really long way. You're not just another CV sitting amongst hundreds of applications. You've shown initiative, you've made it personal and you've given somebody a reason to remember you.
Helen: At the application stage I would want to see examples of experience in a CV. So a CV entry like:
Marketing Exec Jan 2025- Oct 2026
This way you are sharing some of your highlights in the CV which for many is the first impression a hiring manager will get of you.
When you go to the interview stage I like to prepare by having some examples ready to go, in the STAR format (situation, task, action result) covering a few of the areas listed in the job ad. This way you have a mini case study in a tidy format that you can use to answer an interview question. I even go as far as to write them all down in bullet points on a piece of paper in front of me so I can reference them during the interview.
Ultimately, it’s about tailoring the CV and interview examples to what the job ad is saying the common job duties will be.
James: Portfolios are key – I recommend them all day long. I also recommend creating tailored portfolios for the roles you really want, i.e. create a bespoke portfolio of the case studies which are relevant to the business or role you’re applying for.
James: I don't think years of experience should be a blocker, or stop you applying. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't recommend applying for roles asking for 10 years experience when you have 1 year. (NB This isn’t just about you not meeting the requirements – it could be that the business is just being wholly unrealistic and you want to avoid companies like those). Block the years of experience out, and read the job description. How much of it do you cover right now, and prove with tangible results? If it's a fair proportion, go for it!
Helen: I judge the level of role I should be applying for, by applying to roles at all levels and seeing which ones I get interviews for! Sometimes I have surprised myself and been accepted for interviews for jobs I never thought I had a chance at getting. Don’t put yourself in a box too soon, let the market dictate what level you are ready for, you might be surprised.
Often the “2-3 years experience” is more a guide to try to prevent the over or underqualified from applying rather than a hard and fast entry requirement. Ultimately, there’s no harm in you applying and seeing how you get on. Over time you’ll probably start to notice how the market perceives your experience level by the feedback from your applications.
Helen: I would say have confidence that your knowledge and experience is still valid. That yes, the SEO world moves on quickly, but your underlying experiences in setting and measuring strategies, reporting and liaising with clients or stakeholders is always going to be important.
You may need to spend a few weeks reading up on the latest changes again – but actually that might put you in a stronger position as you will be intently studying up on the subject. I’ve participated in a lot of interviews where the person being interviewed has shown no real interest in breaking SEO news, or developments. Someone coming back after a period of time away from the industry will probably be chomping at the bit to discuss the latest developments. That tends to go down well in interviews!
James: In my experience the time that you’ve been in a role doesn’t matter, the impact you have had does. If you're meeting or exceeding your targets well before your next review is due, I don't think you necessarily need to wait for that review to have the conversation. Of course, none of this guarantees you more money, but it should certainly give you the confidence to start the dialogue with your manager.
Have a think about how you can prove the impact of your work, for example:
Be clear on what you've done, what has improved as a result and, importantly, make sure you can accurately and confidently attribute your work to those improvements. And to be clear, I don't just mean doing what's expected of you, or what’s within your job description. I'm talking about where you've gone above and beyond, taken on more responsibility or added value to the business that wasn't necessarily expected of you when you joined.
Helen: I would always recommend being ready to show the positive impact you’ve made on the business before asking for a pay-rise or promotion. This can seem quite unfair if you are asking for a pay-rise because you are being underpaid versus the market rate for your role, but as a manager I know that it is 100 times easier for me to get my direct report’s pay-rise agreed if I can say “they deserve this because they did XYZ, which made us £££”.
In regards to timing, find out from your HR team, or colleagues, what the pay-rise cadence is in your organisation. For example, many businesses have set times of year when they will award pay increases. Trying to negotiate one outside of that period is often incredibly difficult. If your organisation is more fluid then speak to your line manager about how you would like to work towards a promotion and pay-rise, and find out what you need to do to be considered for that.
Helen: Both of these situations have their benefits. Negotiating when you are joining a company gives you the opportunity to take a big jump up the pay-ladder because the new company has no knowledge of what you were previously getting paid.
However, negotiating a salary when you are already in a job means you have all the goodwill and results you’ve built up to negotiate with. Show your results. Show your accomplishments. Always link them back to your company’s overarching goals. Make it as easy as you can for your boss to get the pay-rise agreed.. Do the legwork for them so they can just present it as a business case to their finance team.
James: Honestly, for me, the main difference is leverage and context
With a new job offer, the company will have decided they want you in their business after putting you through your paces. You will likely have beaten other candidates to the role, and ultimately there is a salary range that has been set. I guess what I am saying is, there will be a range to negotiate within. If you want to negotiate a higher salary then highlight concrete examples within your portfolio than demonstrate that you are a high-achiever.
If you are in a job, essentially you are asking somebody to have another look at your value again. I recommend that you record the positive feedback you’ve received as well as your wins. Use both to put a case together.
Speak to people like myself or Helen to get a feel for the external market too - it's always good to be armed with that info!
Just be sure to make the entire conversation about value: this is what I was hired to do, this is what I am doing now that goes beyond that, these are my results, this is what the market is paying versus what I get. That is so much harder to argue with than “Can I have another £5k because my friend is on that salary and they are in the same role in another company".
James: The first thing I would say to that is that you shouldn't confuse being grateful to have a job, with job satisfaction and happiness. Nor should you settle in that way,
Ask yourself:
I think that people are quite often looking for a definitive answer to: “do I stay or go?”, but I don't think it's that simple.
What I recommend is that, once you have asked yourself the questions above, if you determine that you'd happily stay if improvements were made, then communicate that. Don't leave that unsaid, because you may be pleasantly surprised in that your manager had not been aware you were feeling that way,
I'd also recommend speaking to recruiters and other businesses while you're doing this too, just to get a genuine sense of what else is out there. This will help you to understand:
Exploring the market doesn't mean you've decided to leave; it just means you're making that decision with all the information in front of you.
Helen: I understand how difficult it is to separate the “grass is always greener on the other side” from “no, I’m genuinely suffering here and need to move on”.
Something I’ve recommended in the past, is to give yourself a score out of 10 at the end of each day, with a couple of bullets about why you gave that sore, e.g.
“3/10 - got yelled at by a client, leadership didn’t care, cried at work.”
or
“8/10 - was recognised in a Slack channel for the work I did on Project XYZ, had a great call with my line manager.”
Then at the end of each week take the average of the daily scores across your work days. Do this for at least a month. That way you can have data to look back on to see if how you are feeling has been getting worse or better over time, or if you are just remembering it all as bad because of a rough couple of weeks you’ve had recently.
Helen: The thing for me when I’m hiring someone from an agency into an in-house role is whether they have experience of typical in-house problems:
In terms of the valuable skills you’ll have picked up working agency-side, there are loads:
Helen: Oooh, yes, I feel the terror! It’s so difficult making the jump when our income depends on it. I’d consider a couple of ideas:
Helen: Congrats on the new role! For the first question, here’s an article prepared especially for you: Thriving in your SEO Role in 90 days. (Well, I wrote it three years ago, but it does seem perfect for you, we’ll say I wrote it in anticipation of this question today!)
I went from a small business to an overwhelmingly massive enterprise, and honestly, the biggest mindset shift was from “I’m not good enough at SEO to deal with all this!” to “I’ve done all of this before, just with fewer pages. I can scale my knowledge and experience easily! I’ve got this.”
For the second question - talk to people. It’s honestly that simple. Ask your new boss to make a list of the important people in your company, even those who perhaps wouldn’t normally be someone you speak to in the course of SEO work – like the chief financial officer, the chief product officer, the head of innovation, the head of research and development, as well as the standard senior engineering manager, head of content, head of PPC type roles.
Meet with all these people in your first month at the job and just ask them questions. Ask them about their role, their goals for the year and their understanding of SEO. Do it under the guise of wanting to learn more about the company (which will be true), but as they answer, have a think about ways SEO might be able to support their goals. They have been doing things their way for ages, but that doesn’t mean they won’t value support in meeting their goals if SEO can do that for them. Just be all-around ready to listen and learn, and offer support where you can. That does wonders in building influence and credibility.
James: As Helen said, stakeholder management is probably the biggest one. The larger the organisation, the more people you'll need to educate on SEO, why it matters, and you will often find yourself needing to convince people to actually get things done (maybe that sounds a bit harsh, but it has been my experience).
You'll also probably find yourself working with teams and people with job titles you've never heard of. That's a good thing though, you'll learn a lot more about how the wider business works.
For the first 30 days, I'd mostly listen and learn. Understand who owns what, how things actually get done and where the biggest opportunities are. It's also worth learning what motivates each person and team because once you know that, getting them to help you achieve your goal gets a lot easier.
By 60 days, start getting some quick wins on the board and building relationships with people you need.
By 90, you should have a much clearer idea of the bigger SEO roadmap and how you're actually going to get it implemented.
That's probably the biggest shift: I guess knowing what needs to be done is only really half of it. Getting it done and removing barriers is the other half! You might also find this post I wrote for Moz useful: How to Secure an SEO Leadership Role.
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